Re: HACCP Question

From: Remi Michalowski (remi.michalowski@cpbahari.com)
Date: Wed Apr 12 2006 - 02:09:02 PDT

  • Next message: Huynh Le Tam: "RE: HACCP Question"

    Hi Tim,

    actually in US regulation, cGMP or Current Good Manufacturing
    Practices is a whole thing e.g. SSOP or Sanitation Standard
    Operational Procedures (hygiene, sanitation, prevention of
    adulteration and cross-contamination, safety of water and ice,
    etc.,), production and process controls (via HACCP and Defect Actions
    Levels), and facilities conditions.

    In Europe, we use more PRP or Pre-requisites program (SSOP or Good
    Hygienic Practices (GHP), facilities and workers basic knowledge).
    And you need a GMP to make your process works. The HACCP is another
    thing: a tool to complete the whole food safety package by supporting
    your control on key steps.

    Kind regards,

    RM

    On Apr 12, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Timothy Numilengi wrote:

    > Hi Food safe list,
    > The prequisite programs are important especially GMP and SSOP to
    > support your HACCP plan and I agree with this comment. However,
    > I'm still having difficulty in defferenciating GMP from SSOP. Can
    > anybody explain what is GMP and SSOP? Thanks.
    >
    > Tim.
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-seafood@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-seafood@ucdavis.edu]
    > On Behalf Of Remi Michalowski
    > Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 5:50 PM
    > To: Lupin, Hector (FIIU)
    > Cc: Daniel Brooks; seafood@ucdavis.edu
    > Subject: Re: HACCP Question
    >
    > The main issue actually is that everyone presents the HACCP as a
    > miracle solution to prevent food safety issues.
    >
    > However, HACCP is nothing without the Pre-Requisites Program e.g.
    > GMP, SSOP, Facilities conditions and Workers' Skills and Awareness.
    >
    > If you do not meet the requirements for the PRP, well, no need to
    > claim "I am a HACCP company".
    >
    > That is right, you can have all the documentation the customers
    > need, you can prepare your audit but, at the end, if you do not
    > have your PRP, if you do not have correctly designed, implemented
    > and made your HACCP leaving (that is to say verified, validated and
    > reviewed), it is so useless... such as getting milk powder in the
    > middle of the desert without water.
    >
    > HACCP is a tool, powerful, but if you look at the Codex standard :
    > if you cannot monitor the CCP, it is not a CCP... What the hell is
    > that???
    >
    > The gap is filed with the ISO 22000 and I really believe that this
    > standard is a little revolution for the food businesses and all the
    > actors within the food chain.
    >
    > kind regards,
    >
    > Remi Michalowski
    > Indonesia
    >
    > On Apr 11, 2006, at 6:53 PM, Lupin, Hector (FIIU) wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Dear all,
    >>
    >> HACCP has been (and is) the top of an iceberg of a way in
    >> producing safe foods. HACCP has been defined as a change of
    >> paradigm in the way to produce safe foods (change of technological
    >> paradigm in the terms of Thomas Kuhn); and from that point of view
    >> we are still in the transitory period between the old and the new
    >> paradigm; between the "classic" food and fish inspection, generic
    >> food hygiene and the new paradigm.
    >> However, at the same time HACCP is just a risk management tool
    >> within what is the Risk Management chapter of Risk Analysis. Risk
    >> Analysis is the real new paradigm (*).
    >>
    >> In Marguerite Yourcenar's book, Memoirs of Hadrian, she wrote that
    >> emperor Hadrian's time was a very particular time because the
    >> old gods were moribund and the new god was still a baby. We could
    >> have a similar image for HACCP (and Risk Analysis) that are the
    >> new "gods" (that in some way engulf the "old" ones) but at the
    >> same time a large portion of the "old" practices remain including
    >> regulatory aspects.
    >>
    >> HACCP in all the regulations is the responsibility of the producer
    >> and/ or the people responsible of the different stages till the
    >> food arrive to the consumer. There are some noticeable differences
    >> between regulations because some include primary producers (e.g.
    >> fish boats and ponds) and other not; or may not include some of
    >> the responsible along the food chain (covered by some ad-hoc
    >> regulations). But the important thing is that regulatory HACCP is
    >> the whole responsibility of producer (or according to regulations
    >> of who owns, handle or process the food at a given time). In my
    >> opinion a point not well communicated is that the responsibility
    >> (and in most cases the liability) of the safety of the fish or
    >> food, under regulatory HACCP, is with that operators (identified
    >> in the specific regulations); and not any longer with inspection
    >> services (or "competent authorities").
    >>
    >> Of course fish and food inspection services continue to have a
    >> number of responsibilities and role, among others that of
    >> monitoring and verify (audit) that HACCP be implemented according
    >> with regulatory requirements (this obviously depends on the
    >> specific HACCP regulation). Perhaps here we could repeat that that
    >> one of the big problems (world over) and that sometimes affect
    >> even big companies, is the lack of implementation of HACCP
    >> Principle No 6; that according to the Codex version reads:
    >>
    >> "Establish procedures for verification to confirm that the HACCP
    >> system is working effectively"
    >>
    >> This "verification" is not the same "verification" (and audit) of
    >> the fish inspection service. The "verification" mentioned in
    >> Principle 6 is for the operators to do; is internal verification
    >> and audit. This is the weakest part of HACCP implementation and
    >> very often analysing food outbreaks it is easy to find out that
    >> the problem has born from the lack of verification of who should
    >> do that. For instance a number of HACCP plans rely on the
    >> declaration or analysis reports provided by suppliers on the
    >> absence/ control of some hazards; that is fine as normal
    >> procedure, but verification should be performed, by who is
    >> purchasing, from time to time. Not with every batch, but from time
    >> to time to see if reality checks with documents. Just that. It is
    >> not possible or economic to check, for instance each ice load for
    >> microbiological standards or to see if each bag of chilli powder
    >> is free from Sudan 1; but if the hazard could be there, we should
    >> have a plan to verify from time to time that what our supplier is
    >> telling us is true. A word of caution, not necessarily he/ she
    >> wants to cheat us on purpose; quite often they have the same
    >> problem, they accept certificates from their suppliers without to
    >> verify them. Papers (or electronic records) are one thing reality
    >> may be different; papers (or computers) never say NO!!! when
    >> somebody want to write (record) some non-sense.
    >>
    >> Food and fish inspection services (or competent authorities), or
    >> wherever you want to call them, have very little possibility to
    >> control situations like those described in the previous
    >> paragraph. They can look (monitor), from time to time, your HACCP
    >> plans to see if you have proper verification (and internal HACCP
    >> audit) schemes; sometimes they could have also access to your
    >> records and can ask for corrective actions logbook. Look at the
    >> face of a (experienced) HACCP fish inspector when you tell him/
    >> her that you do not have any record of corrective actions during
    >> the last year because there was not need! Certainly you had, and
    >> most probably you did the right thing at the time; but most
    >> probably you did not record it; and the main problem is that you
    >> acted when the problem was notorious (e.g. because of the
    >> complaint of a customer) and not because of a systematic and
    >> planned action from your side. The concept of the systematic and
    >> planned verification is that you could discover problems before
    >> they leave your plant.
    >> It is placed there in case something serious could escape the CCPs
    >> (and eventually the SSOPs).
    >>
    >> All that are things to do, in the plant, to do seriously, with
    >> conviction, with the best of our technological knowledge. No
    >> "certification", "authorization" from fish inspection service,
    >> private institutions or even ISO, or wherever, could replace that.
    >> Some of that things could certainly help by providing guidelines
    >> or a procedure (or even a standard) to do that, but people should
    >> do it (and that requirement it is already in the HACCP guidelines).
    >>
    >> Yes, fish is not only fish; but what we call "fish" is actually
    >> "fish + technology + quality & safety + service"; and the last
    >> three terms continue to increase.
    >>
    >> Kind regards.
    >>
    >> Hector M. Lupin
    >>
    >> (*) I wrote this paragraph to express that we are part of a
    >> culture, of a society, of a time in History. Some authors talk of
    >> post-modern societies as the "Risk Societies" (see for instance
    >> Ulrich Beck, Risk Society, Towards a New Modernity. London: Sage
    >> Publications, 1992 [originally publ. 1986]. 260 pp.) and most
    >> likely developed countries behave very much in the way Beck
    >> theorises. Without this understanding of the role of "risk" in
    >> contemporary developed societies it is difficult to understand
    >> changes like the introduction of HACCP and the development of Risk
    >> Analysis. They are not here because of some illuminated food (or
    >> fish) inspector created them, but because society is pressing for
    >> schemes like that (to self protect themselves) and politicians
    >> have very little or not chance to follow. Industries that
    >> understand that, both in developed and developing countries, will
    >> have certainly a competitive advantage in the years to come. HACCP
    >> regulations are not a regulation in the terms of an imposition,
    >> and it is misleading to see them like that. It is an answer to
    >> something that Society are asking for. HACCP regulations have been
    >> a help to the fish industry all around the world.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: owner-seafood@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-seafood@ucdavis.edu]
    >> On Behalf Of Daniel Brooks
    >> Sent: 11 April 2006 11:58
    >> To: seafood@ucdavis.edu
    >> Subject: HACCP Question
    >>
    >> Dear All:
    >>
    >> In most cases, things have improved in the correlation between a
    >> written HACCP document with the implemented HACCP practices. But
    >> there is still a way's to go meaning there still can be a big
    >> discrepancy between the written HACCP document in the importer's
    >> office vs. what's actually going on in a supplier's plant. And
    >> one should be careful not to be automatically lulled into a sense
    >> of security by the word 'competent' in the term competent
    >> authority - especially in the area of HACCP!
    >>
    >> Thank you.
    >>
    >> Daniel E. Brooks
    >> Managing Director
    >> Food Audits International, Ltd. &
    >> International Food Technology, Ltd.
    >> 5th Floor Charn Issara Tower 1
    >> 942/137 Unit 6, Rama 4 Road
    >> Bangkok 10500, Thailand
    >> phone: (662) 267-3740
    >> fax: (662) 267-3743
    >> email: info@foodaudits.com
    >>
    >
    > Dipl. Ing. Remi Michalowski
    > Senior Manager IQA Food Processing
    > PT. Centralpertiwi Bahari - Lampung, Indonesia
    > HP + 62 815 4040 484
    >
    > Charoen Pokphand Group - "A Tradition of Quality"
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Dipl. Ing. Remi Michalowski
    Senior Manager IQA Food Processing
    PT. Centralpertiwi Bahari - Lampung, Indonesia
    HP + 62 815 4040 484

    Charoen Pokphand Group - "A Tradition of Quality"



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