[LAW-LIB:57625] RE: Purpose of Law-LIB

From: Gerton, Ginger (gjgerton@ober.com)
Date: Mon Dec 22 2008 - 05:19:44 PST

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    Could we please stop the name calling, condescending tone and lecturing?

    Ginger J. Gerton, MLS

    Library, Conflicts & Records Manager

    ________________________________
    From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu] On Behalf Of Stephanie Huthmacher
    Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:15 AM
    To: Ronald Huttner; law-lib@ucdavis.edu
    Subject: [LAW-LIB:57624] RE: Purpose of Law-LIB

    Drop it already!! Why is it you always cause such problems? You are tiresome...

    ________________________________
    From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu] On Behalf Of Ronald Huttner
    Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:48 PM
    To: law-lib@ucdavis.edu
    Subject: [LAW-LIB:57611] RE: Purpose of Law-LIB

    You are ignorant, as well as quite wrong as to the reasons why I object to your (and "Sylvia Hagan") posting anonymously.
    In fact your complete and utter ignorance of what your own Constitution's First Amendment actually says and does is truly breathtaking.
    It is a prohibition on your Federal Government passing any law that inhibits free speech.
    No more and no less.
    The Law-Lib List is not the Federal Government and is neither owned nor administered by the Federal Government.
    I is simply a Listserv forum owned and run by Judy Jones.
    She, not the Federal Government, makes the rules that operate on the List.
    The First Amendment has absolutely nothing whatsoever to say as to how a private Listserv should or should not be run.
    But if it keeps you happy, do by all means continue your World Wide Solo Practicing.
    There's always the possibility, albeit remote, that practice might one day make perfect.

    Ron Huttner LL.B (Hons)
    (Retired) Barrister and Solicitor, Law Lecturer and Legal Researcher
    Melbourne
    Victoria
    Australia

    Amendment 1

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    On 21/12/2008, at 9:16 AM, Leslie Germaine wrote:

    There are only two possible (and connected) reasons for Ronnie objecting so strongly to anonymity on this listserv:

    1) he wants to stifle posters, and,

    2) he wants to stifle them by implicitly threatening to "report" them to whoever he might deem appropriate.

    Sorry Ronnie, this ain't Australia, and there IS a 1st Amendment that governs. 

    --
Leslie Germaine
Solo Practitioner
Practicing Worldwide
________
"Now, I'm not suggesting Obama intends to transform this nation into 1950s-era Soviet tyranny or that he will possess the power to do so. I'm suggesting Obama is praising and mainstreaming an economic philosophy that has failed to produce a scintilla of fairness or prosperity anywhere on Earth. Ever."

    On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Butterfield, George <GeorgeButterfield@creighton.edu<mailto:GeorgeButterfield@creighton.edu>> wrote:

    Ron,

    I do not see how knowing who the person is or how to contact them has any bearing on the weight of what they write. I also do not see why wanting to be anonymous is a bad thing. Folks may have their reasons for it and I do not believe it appropriate for me to judge their motives. So what if they want to be anonymous? We can read what a person writes and conclude that old anonymous had something relevant to say or not.

    As to changing the FAQs, I don't really have an opinion on that. Thanks for your comments.

    George Butterfield

    Legal Reference Librarian

    Creighton Univ. School of Law Library

    2500 California Plaza

    Omaha, NE  68178

    Office phone:  402-280-2243

    Fax:  402-280-2244

    email:  GeorgeButterfield@creighton.edu<mailto:GeorgeButterfield@creighton.edu>

    From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu<mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu> [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu<mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu>] On Behalf Of Ronald Huttner
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:53 AM
To: law-lib@ucdavis.edu<mailto:law-lib@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: [LAW-LIB:57608] RE: Purpose of Law-LIB

    I agree with a lot of what you say, George.

    By all means evaluate each and every posting to the List on its contents and its merits or lack thereof.

    However, the fact you may not happen to know a particular person on the List who is nevertheless accurately and fully identifying himself/herself in all of his/her postings, in no way justifies your statement that that person "might as well be anonymous". There is a vast and fundamental difference between being a person who happens to be not known by another person, but is perfectly capable of being known, contacted etc, and being a person who quite deliberately chooses to makes it impossible for another person to ever know or contact them, because he/she is hiding under a cloak of anonymity.

    It is also worth noting what is stated in the Law-Lib FAQs. See item 6 under the heading "Suggestions For The Effective Use Of Law-Lib" at  http://home.olemiss.edu/~noe/llfaq.html>

    If anonymous postings to the List are in fact not prohibited and there is no policy on them, as now clearly stated by Judy, then should there not now be some amendments made to those FAQs ?

    Ron Huttner LL.B (Hons)

    (Retired) Barrister and Solicitor, Law Lecturer and Legal Researcher

    Melbourne

    Victoria

    Australia

    On 21/12/2008, at 3:19 AM, Butterfield, George wrote:

    Judy,

    I believe that this list is fulfilling its purpose. Who has the time to check out the identity of every person who posts? Who cares? We teach our students about the weight of authority. The same thing is true of the posts on this list. I weigh them and make my own judgment. Whether it is by an anonymous poster or someone that I don't know who may as well be anonymous, I consider what is written and decide the value of it. Having an address doesn't make the post more weighty. Knowing where the person works doesn't make the post valuable. In fact, those things can skew a person's vision. Nonsense is just that no matter where the person works. We have to judge for ourselves based on the content of the post.

    I believe that this list is set up as it should be. I wouldn't change a thing. Keep up the good work.

    George Butterfield

    Legal Reference Librarian

    Creighton Univ. School of Law Library

    2500 California Plaza

    Omaha, NE  68178

    Office phone:  402-280-2243

    Fax:  402-280-2244

    email:  GeorgeButterfield@creighton.edu<mailto:GeorgeButterfield@creighton.edu>

    From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu<mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu> [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu] On Behalf Of Janes, Judy
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 11:55 AM
To: David Clark; law-lib List
Subject: [LAW-LIB:57597] Purpose of Law-LIB

    Dear Dave and Other Law-libbers:  First of all, Dave, thank you for your comments as well as everyone else's.  I do want to make clear that law-lib is an un-moderated list.  There is no rule or policy that "anonymous posters are not allowed".  We all certainly hope that people will identify themselves when they post, but there is no one checking to make sure posts are signed or for that matter that signatures are authentic. We rely on everyone's professional judgment and goodwill to use respect when addressing the more than 3000 subscribers all over the world.  Perhaps some of you would like to branch off and start another list with the rules and forum you are suggesting.  For the majority of law-libbers the list serves its original purpose, that is, to provide a forum for law librarians to discuss library and library-related issues. I hope we can get back to business.

    All the best, Judy

    *******************************

    Judy Janes, Interim Director
UC Davis Mabie Law Library
400 Mrak Hall Dr.
Davis, Ca 95616
Phone 530 752-3328
FAX 530 752-8766
jcjanes@ucdavis.edu<mailto:jcjanes@ucdavis.edu>

    *******************************

    UC Davis School of Law - 40 Years of Excellence, Leadership, and Community

    From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu<mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu> [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu] On Behalf Of David Clark
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:11 AM
To: Law-Lib
Subject: [LAW-LIB:57594] Re: Anonymous Posters on Lawlib

    Although I have never met Ron Huttner (I'd like to visit Australia some day, but I don't know if I'll ever get there), I like him and consider him to be a friend (albeit a long-distance one).

    I am not an apologist for Ron; you may judge him as you like, but at least you know who he is and how to reach him.  He does not cloak his identity with on-line anonymity.

    I do not take anything said on this list (or in life, for that matter) personally, but when anonymous posters taunt and jeer and perpetrate all manner of silliness; then that leads me to believe (as I believe it would lead any reasonable and prudent person) that their intent is merely to disrupt the list for their own titillation, without having to answer to anyone for it.

    I am given to understand that anonymous posters to this list are not allowed.  I believe that's a good policy.

    Thanks! and Happy Chanukah, Merry Christmas, and Happy Kwanzaa to all...

    Dave C.

    David C. Clark, JD, MLIS
Law Librarian
Lightfoot, Franklin, & White, L.L.C.
The Clark Building, 400 20th St. N.
Birmingham, AL 35203-3200
205-581-0768 / 205-380-9368 FAX
(Any opinions expressed herein are solely my own.)

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