Libbers - Many Thanks for your honest responses - very much appreciated. I have shared this summary with the firm's decision makers - your comments will have a profound impact on the pending decision re the M-H listing.
Thanks to Mary who took the time to provide the links to the M-H string in the 2004 and 2005 Archives.
Thanks also to Donna Fisher, Co-Editor of PLL's newsletter Perspectives who is considering making M-H the topic of a Winter 2008 column.
In the interest of time, I will just list all the responses without further comment from me. I've included first names only in the interest of confidentiality.
1. FROM BETH:
Hello - I can't answer your question, but I checked out your firm's
Website, and I love that they include you, complete with profile! They
must be very forward-thinking.
2. FROM KATHIE:
Of course they don't want you to reduce the size since they charge per
inch of print. We reduced our Associates down to the minimum, but our
Principals can say what they like. You can really reduce the size if you
only list in the front section.
3. FROM JULIE:
I have seen law firms which only bio their partners/of counsel/counsel.
They either totally leave off the associates or just list them in a
bunch - no bio information. How can MH require anything - it should be
totally your choice. They should print whatever you send them.
4. FROM PAULINE:
We did reduce ours quite a bit two or three years ago. We didn't look into removing education so I cant tell you about that. We did take out some awards and used initials a lot more (state for birth is now in initials). MH didn't give me any hassle, only tried and tried to sell me package deals. But it was about the same time they rolled out their online version so they might have had more on their plate. We discussed but did not implement a further cut in the listing of Assoc. information. We will probably do that next time the bill is questioned. Also in other directories I changed all the Universities to Univ. and I plan to do that with Martindale. Those sound like little changes but remember every character counts. The hardest part was getting some of the attorneys to accept the cuts. We had to find listings of people they respected or admired in a few cases that had similar short listings as support. I have found the information from Martindale varies a lot by who you talk to, so if you questi
on what one person says try another rep. I now have a rep. that I love Linda Brienza 908-771-8733, she can be hard to reach but gives straight answers.
5. FROM SUSAN:
The company basically seems to have a set amount of money in mind that it wants from a firm. If you reduce in one area, other costs go up. Seminars, placements of articles in journals the company produced, etc. were some of the items M-H wanted to include in a contract. If we were going to exclude those or significantly reduce our listing, the listing price was actually going to be higher. I can understand that M-H is diversifying since the world where its directory was essential is no more, but evolution sometimes means just going in another direction. This firm is no longer listed. It was a business decision in great part made by looking at where potential clients are likely to look for information about the firm. It wasn't to M-H.
I'll be interested in your summary.
6. FROM SCOTT:
Hi Elaine,
I'd be interested in your findings. Thanks!
7. FROM JILL:
Below is a message from our Marketing Director. Hope this helps.
"I'm still negotiating with M-H on our contract. M-H will push back on
any firm's attempt to reduce their listing, but I would recommend that
the firm stick to their guns. For example, XXX keeps their attorney bios
to a minimum (education, bar admission, and practice areas).
A firm can further reduce their costs by eliminating their list of
representative clients and other misc. info. "
8. FROM SUSAN:
I have been looking at this same issue. I saw one large law firm
listing where they had full biographies of the partners and only listed
the names of the associates. We sometimes tell our attorneys the
additional price per line when they are editing their biography. Some
of them try to be concise.
9. FROM KATHLEEN:
I work for several firms in XXX, and everyone has the same
issue. In fact, I have two firms that no longer list in MH. My only
suggestion is to keep the bios short and basic. Include basic firm
info, practice areas, admission year, birth year, and education. Do not
include memberships, articles, languages, honors, clerkships, cases,
transactions, etc. I consider all of that fluff, and it can go on the
firm website. In the past 2 or 3 years this has helped the price, but
it is still a lot of money, especially for mid sized firms. Let me know
if you have questions.
10. FROM KRIS:
We have been doing this for a couple of years now. Resistance comes from both MH and senior attorneys. We limit associate attorney bios to 6 lines; senior attorneys to 10.
I'd be very interested in your summary of responses.
Thanks very much. Regards,
11. FROM MARY:
You've probably already seen these, but I remember this came up years
ago in Law-lib. An archives search would retrieve quite a few cost
control ideas. To get you started, here are a couple threads from 2004
and 2005:
http://lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/Lawlib/June04/0249.html
http://lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/Lawlib/June05/0059.html
Judging by how the set has shrunk, perhaps a quick flip-though might be
worthwhile too.
12. FROM NANNA:
You might want to read Barbara Quint's column "UpFront"
appearing in the current issue of "Information Today" (Sept. 2007, vol.
24, issue 8) because she discusses M-H's business model for profit and
how it is evolving from one based on law firm listings to rankings. It
might give you some insight into what is to come.
13. FROM DAVE:
Dear Elaine,
Good topic. Thanks.
I cannot shed much light on it, though. I didn't know about the birth info thing; but I have noticed it missing lately, in many cases.
All I know is that we have been thinking (and only thinking) about maybe easing away from M-H some day. It's only an idea at this point, so I will be looking forward to your summary.Thanks!
14. FROM NICK:
Our firm simply stopped listing - I've heard that this is a trend, at
least among larger law firms. With firms putting attorney bios on their
web sites, who needs Martindale?
15. FROM YVONNE:
Hi Elaine: We are at exactly the same place you are with M-H.
We have in the last year closed an office and reduced the number of attorneys by nearly a 1/4. Even with all that reducing - what we feel is a sizable quantity of information - our invoice has been reduced only a couple thousand dollars.
I have a call in to our rep who is out of town, so no explanation thus far.
This is a touchy situation as many of our attorneys already feel that, given the cost of the directory, it's not a cost effective expense.
We'd be interested in knowing what kind of feedback you're getting from others.
16. FROM CHUCK:
We are fighting an uphill battle on this one. We cut back our lines and still ended up only reducing our bill by several thousand dollars. We're not done yet in trying to cut but what has happened is a growing resistance by the firm to continue with anything but a minor mention.
We are undertaking an effort to identify how many M-H referrals we actually get and frankly that will be the end of them........
Hope this helps.
THANKS AGAIN TO ALL LIBBERS WHO RESPONDED. MUCH APPRECIATED
Elaine
edockens@tsmp.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu]On
Behalf Of Elaine B. Dockens
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:09 PM
To: Law-Lib (E-mail)
Subject: Martindale Hubble - Pricing of Firm Listing
Libbers - We are trying to reduce the size of our listing to avoid the "sticker shock" of our 2008 Martindale Hubble (M-H).
We've been told by M-H that there are some things we can delete (like birth information) but that other items must remain in the listing (like education).
Has anyone else encountered this resistance by M-H while trying to reduce the size of the listing? Has anyone been successful in reducing the size of the listing and therefore the invoice and care to share?
I'll summarize for the group if there is any interest - all responses will be kept confidential and will not be identified in the summary, if any.
TIA
Elaine
edockens@tsmp.com
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