And the sole result from the English Reports (1220-1865) on Hein Online
supports this:
Mary McCormick
________________________________
From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu] On
Behalf Of Ronald Huttner
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:27 AM
To: law-lib List; Laura Orr
Subject: Re: Difference between INTRA vires and INFRA vires ? - Further
Thoughts
Hi Laura,
I am quite certain that on this occasion I am right ! I have just spent
several hours online doing extensive research on your query - purely for
the sheer hell of it !! I can find NOTHING WHATSOEVER to support the
view that "infra vires" means anything remotely different from "intra
vires". In fact, in the umpteen tens of thousands of cases contained in
AustLII's databases I found only 2 occasions (yes - only 2) where the
expression "infra vires" was ever used !! However I found many many
thousands of instances of the phrase "intra vires". It is exactly the
same on Google. "Infra vires" does appear from time to time - but
predominantly in America, and far less in Australia and New Zealand. But
even in America it still occurs far, far less than "intra vires".
Frankly, "infra vires" is simply bad grammar and pretty meaningless in
the legal context. An act of a person or corporate entity, or a
legislative instrument, is either within power or outside power. That is
to say, either "intra vires" or "ultra vires". Have you ever heard of an
act or a legislative instrument being said, in English, to be
"underneath" or "below" power ? It would be very poor grammar in
English, so why say it in Latin ? How about this challenge for
Law-Libbers ? Can anyone come up with a single instance - in any
jurisdiction anywhere at all - where the phrase "infra vires" has
plainly been used to mean something OTHER than "intra vires" ? I am
willing to bet than no-one can !!
Cheers,
Ave Atque Vale
Ron
On 04/08/2007, at 12:45 AM, Laura Orr wrote:
Hi Ron:
You know, I think you're right or darn close to being right. I woke up
early thinking about this and further forays above, beyond, and below
the term lead me to the same conclusion. I don't have Fowler's or the
like and the only Garner we have lists ultra and intra, but no infra, so
couldn't trace it that way. And, the only place I see infra a lot is in
footnotes and in the light bulb section of hardware store, neither of
which is terribly helpful here.
It does seem to be used a bit more in the criminal law context, so I was
thinking there might be some traditional, historical, or British
connection (etymological perhaps), but again, don't have the research
resources here (other than limited online ones, which in this instance
are somewhat inferior).
I approach questions like this from non-attorneys carefully - attorneys
understand ambiguities and terminology that you sometimes have to take
on face value, given its source - and we have a lot of context and
intangible signals that tell us to trust or not trust what we read and
assume. With non-attorneys, you don't always know the whole context,
they certainly don't know how to separate the Weatabix from the Kix, and
I always admire their willingness, not to mention bravery, to try to
understand this tough world of law and legal research. So I sometimes
take it a little further, if only to give me a chance to figure out what
they know, don't know, and need to know. And they do come up with some
stumpers sometimes :-)
Thanks!
Laura
________________________________
From: Ronald Huttner [mailto:rshutt@netspace.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:18 PM
To: law-lib List; Laura Orr
Subject: Re: Difference between INTRA vires and INFRA vires?
Hi Laura,
I wouldn't devote a further second to this enquiry. It would be
time wasted. "Infra vires" means exactly the same thing as "intra vires"
in the legal context. It is simply a less accurate way of expressing
exactly the same concept - used solely by those whose knowledge of Latin
is definitely infra that of those who use the correct word "intra" !
Ron Huttner LL.B (Hons)
(Retired) Barrister, Solicitor, Law Lecturer and Legal
Researcher
Melbourne
Victoria
Australia
"Cogito Ergo Sum"
On 03/08/2007, at 9:23 AM, Laura Orr wrote:
Greetings:
I have a (non-attorney) patron who wants to know exactly what
INFRA vires means. (We know about ULTRA vires and even INTRA vires.) I
can piece it together (so to speak), but not with sufficient assurance
to withstand sharp and close scrutiny and certainly not to when it comes
to explaining the difference between INTRA and INFRA vires to a
non-attorney. (Those pesky withins and belows get us every time.)
We're a small library with only a couple of dictionaries,
Black's and one edition of Ballentine, and neither defines INFRA vires
(the one we really want to know about), though the patron can see each
word defined individually. A few Internet search engine searches help,
but something more authoritative is needed.
The context was a page in a book on criminal procedure, but it's
obviously a word used in several contexts, usually having to do with
official conduct. Sooo, if a police officer acts INFRA vires, is s/he
acting within (INTRA) or beneath his/her power (INFRA), or are they the
same thing? And if BELOW, what the devil does that mean if it's
different from ULTRA?
It is possible that in the early morning all will become clear
to me (I'm most definitely a morning person) without assistance, but for
now, I put myself (throw myself? is there a difference? :-) at your
mercy.
Many thanks!!!
Laura
Laura J. Orr
Law Librarian
Washington County Law Library
111 NE Lincoln St
Hillsboro, OR 97124
Phone: 503-846-8870
Fax: 503-846-3515
Email: laura_orr@co.washington.or.us
<mailto:laura_orr@co.washington.or.us>
URL: http://www.co.washington.or.us/lawlibrary
<http://www.co.washington.or.us/lawlibrary>
Blog: oregonlegalresearch.blogspot.com
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