Hi Laura,
I am quite certain that on this occasion I am right ! I have just
spent several hours online doing extensive research on your query -
purely for the sheer hell of it !! I can find NOTHING WHATSOEVER to
support the view that "infra vires" means anything remotely different
from "intra vires". In fact, in the umpteen tens of thousands of
cases contained in AustLII's databases I found only 2 occasions (yes
- only 2) where the expression "infra vires" was ever used !!
However I found many many thousands of instances of the phrase "intra
vires". It is exactly the same on Google. "Infra vires" does appear
from time to time - but predominantly in America, and far less in
Australia and New Zealand. But even in America it still occurs far,
far less than "intra vires". Frankly, "infra vires" is simply bad
grammar and pretty meaningless in the legal context. An act of a
person or corporate entity, or a legislative instrument, is either
within power or outside power. That is to say, either "intra vires"
or "ultra vires". Have you ever heard of an act or a legislative
instrument being said, in English, to be "underneath" or "below"
power ? It would be very poor grammar in English, so why say it in
Latin ? How about this challenge for Law-Libbers ? Can anyone come
up with a single instance - in any jurisdiction anywhere at all -
where the phrase "infra vires" has plainly been used to mean
something OTHER than "intra vires" ? I am willing to bet than no-one
can !!
Cheers,
Ave Atque Vale
Ron
On 04/08/2007, at 12:45 AM, Laura Orr wrote:
> Hi Ron:
>
> You know, I think you're right or darn close to being right. I
> woke up early thinking about this and further forays above, beyond,
> and below the term lead me to the same conclusion. I don't have
> Fowler's or the like and the only Garner we have lists ultra and
> intra, but no infra, so couldn't trace it that way. And, the only
> place I see infra a lot is in footnotes and in the light bulb
> section of hardware store, neither of which is terribly helpful here.
>
> It does seem to be used a bit more in the criminal law context, so
> I was thinking there might be some traditional, historical, or
> British connection (etymological perhaps), but again, don't have
> the research resources here (other than limited online ones, which
> in this instance are somewhat inferior).
>
> I approach questions like this from non-attorneys carefully -
> attorneys understand ambiguities and terminology that you sometimes
> have to take on face value, given its source - and we have a lot of
> context and intangible signals that tell us to trust or not trust
> what we read and assume. With non-attorneys, you don't always know
> the whole context, they certainly don't know how to separate the
> Weatabix from the Kix, and I always admire their willingness, not
> to mention bravery, to try to understand this tough world of law
> and legal research. So I sometimes take it a little further, if
> only to give me a chance to figure out what they know, don't know,
> and need to know. And they do come up with some stumpers sometimes :-)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Laura
>
> From: Ronald Huttner [mailto:rshutt@netspace.net.au]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:18 PM
> To: law-lib List; Laura Orr
> Subject: Re: Difference between INTRA vires and INFRA vires?
>
> Hi Laura,
> I wouldn't devote a further second to this enquiry. It would be
> time wasted. "Infra vires" means exactly the same thing as "intra
> vires" in the legal context. It is simply a less accurate way of
> expressing exactly the same concept - used solely by those whose
> knowledge of Latin is definitely infra that of those who use the
> correct word "intra" !
>
> Ron Huttner LL.B (Hons)
> (Retired) Barrister, Solicitor, Law Lecturer and Legal Researcher
> Melbourne
> Victoria
> Australia
>
> "Cogito Ergo Sum"
>
>
>
> On 03/08/2007, at 9:23 AM, Laura Orr wrote:
>
>> Greetings:
>>
>> I have a (non-attorney) patron who wants to know exactly what
>> INFRA vires means. (We know about ULTRA vires and even INTRA
>> vires.) I can piece it together (so to speak), but not with
>> sufficient assurance to withstand sharp and close scrutiny and
>> certainly not to when it comes to explaining the difference
>> between INTRA and INFRA vires to a non-attorney. (Those pesky
>> withins and belows get us every time.)
>>
>> We're a small library with only a couple of dictionaries, Black's
>> and one edition of Ballentine, and neither defines INFRA vires
>> (the one we really want to know about), though the patron can see
>> each word defined individually. A few Internet search engine
>> searches help, but something more authoritative is needed.
>>
>> The context was a page in a book on criminal procedure, but it's
>> obviously a word used in several contexts, usually having to do
>> with official conduct. Sooo, if a police officer acts INFRA
>> vires, is s/he acting within (INTRA) or beneath his/her power
>> (INFRA), or are they the same thing? And if BELOW, what the devil
>> does that mean if it's different from ULTRA?
>>
>> It is possible that in the early morning all will become clear to
>> me (I'm most definitely a morning person) without assistance, but
>> for now, I put myself (throw myself? is there a difference? :-) at
>> your mercy.
>>
>> Many thanks!!!
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> Laura J. Orr
>> Law Librarian
>> Washington County Law Library
>> 111 NE Lincoln St
>> Hillsboro, OR 97124
>> Phone: 503-846-8870
>> Fax: 503-846-3515
>> Email: laura_orr@co.washington.or.us
>> URL: http://www.co.washington.or.us/lawlibrary
>> Blog: oregonlegalresearch.blogspot.com
>
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