Aha!
:-)
Laura
P.S. I suppose this means it will be back in use soon (or as the
barbarians might say, "sometime in the future that is before us.")
________________________________
From: dl [mailto:dl1998q@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 8:01 AM
To: Laura Orr; law-lib to post
Subject: RE: Difference between INTRA vires and INFRA vires?
A note from Black's entry for infra
"The use of infra for intra seems to have sprung up among the
barbarians after the fall of the Roman empire."
David Leone
Nashville, TN
Laura Orr <Laura_Orr@co.washington.or.us> wrote:
Hi Ron:
You know, I think you're right or darn close to being
right. I woke up early thinking about this and further forays above,
beyond, and below the term lead me to the same conclusion. I don't have
Fowler's or the like and the only Garner we have lists ultra and intra,
but no infra, so couldn't trace it that way. And, the only place I see
infra a lot is in footnotes and in the light bulb section of hardware
store, neither of which is terribly helpful here.
It does seem to be used a bit more in the criminal law
context, so I was thinking there might be some traditional, historical,
or British connection (etymological perhaps), but again, don't have the
research resources here (other than limited online ones, which in this
instance are somewhat inferior).
I approach questions like this from non-attorneys
carefully - attorneys understand ambiguities and terminology that you
sometimes have to take on face value, given its source - and we have a
lot of context and intangible signals that tell us to trust or not trust
what we read and assume. With non-attorneys, you don't always know the
whole context, they certainly don't know how to separate the Weatabix
from the Kix, and I always admire their willingness, not to mention
bravery, to try to understand this tough world of law and legal
research. So I sometimes take it a little further, if only to give me a
chance to figure out what they know, don't know, and need to know. And
they do come up with some stumpers sometimes :-)
Thanks!
Laura
________________________________
From: Ronald Huttner
[mailto:rshutt@netspace.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:18 PM
To: law-lib List; Laura Orr
Subject: Re: Difference between INTRA vires and
INFRA vires?
Hi Laura,
I wouldn't devote a further second to this
enquiry. It would be time wasted. "Infra vires" means exactly the same
thing as "intra vires" in the legal context. It is simply a less
accurate way of expressing exactly the same concept - used solely by
those whose knowledge of Latin is definitely infra that of those who use
the correct word "intra" !
Ron Huttner LL.B (Hons)
(Retired) Barrister, Solicitor, Law Lecturer and
Legal Researcher
Melbourne
Victoria
Australia
"Cogito Ergo Sum"
On 03/08/2007, at 9:23 AM, Laura Orr wrote:
Greetings:
I have a (non-attorney) patron who wants
to know exactly what INFRA vires means. (We know about ULTRA vires and
even INTRA vires.) I can piece it together (so to speak), but not with
sufficient assurance to withstand sharp and close scrutiny and certainly
not to when it comes to explaining the difference between INTRA and
INFRA vires to a non-attorney. (Those pesky withins and belows get us
every time.)
We're a small library with only a couple
of dictionaries, Black's and one edition of Ballentine, and neither
defines INFRA vires (the one we really want to know about), though the
patron can see each word defined individually. A few Internet search
engine searches help, but something more authoritative is needed.
The context was a page in a book on
criminal procedure, but it's obviously a word used in several contexts,
usually having to do with official conduct. Sooo, if a police officer
acts INFRA vires, is s/he acting within (INTRA) or beneath his/her power
(INFRA), or are they the same thing? And if BELOW, what the devil does
that mean if it's different from ULTRA?
It is possible that in the early morning
all will become clear to me (I'm most definitely a morning person)
without assistance, but for now, I put myself (throw myself? is there a
difference? :-) at your mercy.
Many thanks!!!
Laura
Laura J. Orr
Law Librarian
Washington County Law Library
111 NE Lincoln St
Hillsboro, OR 97124
Phone: 503-846-8870
Fax: 503-846-3515
Email: laura_orr@co.washington.or.us
<mailto:laura_orr@co.washington.or.us>
URL:
http://www.co.washington.or.us/lawlibrary
<http://www.co.washington.or.us/lawlibrary>
Blog: oregonlegalresearch.blogspot.com
David Leone
Librarian
Waller Lansden Dortch & Davis, LLP
511 Union Street, Suite 2700
Nashville, Tennessee 37219
Phone: 615-850-8144
Fax: 615-244-6804
Email: dleone@wallerlaw.com
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