A note from Black's entry for infra
"The use of infra for intra seems to have sprung up among the barbarians after the fall of the Roman empire."
David Leone
Nashville, TN
Laura Orr <Laura_Orr@co.washington.or.us> wrote:
Hi Ron:
You know, I think you're right or darn close to being right. I woke up early thinking about this and further forays above, beyond, and below the term lead me to the same conclusion. I don't have Fowler's or the like and the only Garner we have lists ultra and intra, but no infra, so couldn't trace it that way. And, the only place I see infra a lot is in footnotes and in the light bulb section of hardware store, neither of which is terribly helpful here.
It does seem to be used a bit more in the criminal law context, so I was thinking there might be some traditional, historical, or British connection (etymological perhaps), but again, don't have the research resources here (other than limited online ones, which in this instance are somewhat inferior).
I approach questions like this from non-attorneys carefully - attorneys understand ambiguities and terminology that you sometimes have to take on face value, given its source - and we have a lot of context and intangible signals that tell us to trust or not trust what we read and assume. With non-attorneys, you don't always know the whole context, they certainly don't know how to separate the Weatabix from the Kix, and I always admire their willingness, not to mention bravery, to try to understand this tough world of law and legal research. So I sometimes take it a little further, if only to give me a chance to figure out what they know, don't know, and need to know. And they do come up with some stumpers sometimes :-)
Thanks!
Laura
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From: Ronald Huttner [mailto:rshutt@netspace.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:18 PM
To: law-lib List; Laura Orr
Subject: Re: Difference between INTRA vires and INFRA vires?
Hi Laura, I wouldn't devote a further second to this enquiry. It would be time wasted. "Infra vires" means exactly the same thing as "intra vires" in the legal context. It is simply a less accurate way of expressing exactly the same concept - used solely by those whose knowledge of Latin is definitely infra that of those who use the correct word "intra" !
Ron Huttner LL.B (Hons)
(Retired) Barrister, Solicitor, Law Lecturer and Legal Researcher
Melbourne
Victoria
Australia
"Cogito Ergo Sum"
On 03/08/2007, at 9:23 AM, Laura Orr wrote:
Greetings:
I have a (non-attorney) patron who wants to know exactly what INFRA vires means. (We know about ULTRA vires and even INTRA vires.) I can piece it together (so to speak), but not with sufficient assurance to withstand sharp and close scrutiny and certainly not to when it comes to explaining the difference between INTRA and INFRA vires to a non-attorney. (Those pesky withins and belows get us every time.)
We're a small library with only a couple of dictionaries, Black's and one edition of Ballentine, and neither defines INFRA vires (the one we really want to know about), though the patron can see each word defined individually. A few Internet search engine searches help, but something more authoritative is needed.
The context was a page in a book on criminal procedure, but it's obviously a word used in several contexts, usually having to do with official conduct. Sooo, if a police officer acts INFRA vires, is s/he acting within (INTRA) or beneath his/her power (INFRA), or are they the same thing? And if BELOW, what the devil does that mean if it's different from ULTRA?
It is possible that in the early morning all will become clear to me (I'm most definitely a morning person) without assistance, but for now, I put myself (throw myself? is there a difference? :-) at your mercy.
Many thanks!!!
Laura
Laura J. Orr
Law Librarian
Washington County Law Library
111 NE Lincoln St
Hillsboro, OR 97124
Phone: 503-846-8870
Fax: 503-846-3515
Email: laura_orr@co.washington.or.us
URL: http://www.co.washington.or.us/lawlibrary
Blog: oregonlegalresearch.blogspot.com
David Leone
Librarian
Waller Lansden Dortch & Davis, LLP
511 Union Street, Suite 2700
Nashville, Tennessee 37219
Phone: 615-850-8144
Fax: 615-244-6804
Email: dleone@wallerlaw.com
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