My random thought for the day:
Exxon Mobile, Chevron, Shell, and BP all seem to be doing a good
business by advertising their retail prices without resorting to a
subscription sales contract that prohibits the buyer from disclosing the
price paid.
And a second random thought:
A lot of the subscribers to these products are government institutions.
God knows any representative from a legal publisher can determine
exactly (and I mean to the penny) just how much my employer pays me by
simply looking it up in the university's budget that is required by law
to be available simply for the asking. Can the State of Texas legally
contract away its budgetary information with vendors? And if so, can I
get vendor status. Not that I have actually looked or anything, but how
much does the United States pay for its legal materials subscriptions
(and how much of the cost of those books provided to individual judicial
officers are underwritten by the private subscribers)?
I think I'll go back to drinking now - it doesn't hurt as much when I'm
unconscious, and I seem to have fewer random thoughts.
Chas. Gaunce
Law Librarian
University of Texas at El Paso
________________________________
From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu] On
Behalf Of Samuel E Trosow
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:53 PM
To: Michael Ginsborg; law-lib@ucdavis.edu; marts@uchastings.edu
Subject: Re: Revising Principal 2 of the Guide to Fair Business
Practices for Legal Publishers to ban confidentiality clauses in
customer contracts?
Suppose I'm a monopolist who is trying to engage in the worst sorts of
rent-gouging behavior. I'll put something in my contract saying that my
bad behavior is proprietary information, and even though you know about
it, you can't say anything. I'll sue you if you do, (well not really, I
might lose, but I'll threaten to and that's good enough because I'll bet
you won't challenge me-- It's more trouble for your institution if you
do, and I know as well as you do that you're probably constrained to
state your views anyway). I know all about your institution because I'm
already there teaching your students or attorneys legal research. You've
already ceded that to me. You're probably just going to roll over so
it's a good bet that you will not challenge me. Besides, I've captured
your association. And of any of you don't go along with this state of
affairs you will become marginalized. We own you.
If a used care salesman tried an anti-consumer stunt like this, most
thinking car-buyers would probably walk away, and would go to a place
that claimed the actual and true sticker price is posted on every car.
Honest and no exceptions. Do you really need all of these products? I
don't think you do and it's certainly not censorship to talk about smart
collection development policies where you lose expensive and redundant
services.
Whenever you get into legalisms such as the " insofar as allowed without
violating contractual agreements or revealing proprietary information"
clause, you've lost before you've started! Michael is raising some very
useful points here, and I won' t try to repeat his excellent legal
analysis.
Say not to confidentiality clauses. Talk to other librarians about your
pricing structure. This reminds me of landords who insist that the
tenants not discuss their rents with each other. In the end, you get
rent control and other reforms becuase people are tired of being played
off against each other. And above all else, take back control over the
process of transferring legal information. It's fairly obvious that the
existing structures to protect us from predatory practices aren't
working. AALL and its committees have failed in this regard and it is
starting to appear to more observers that law librarians have
compromised their integrity as an independant profession. It's only
starting to come out now.
Cancelling at least one subscription is certainly a good place to start.
Pick one where you don't really limit anyone's access to needed info.
You all know there are plenty of redundant products out there.
Some recent posts (Susan and Michael and Christine to name just three)
show there is indeed much hope for the enterprise of law librarianship.
I suspect there are many out there who agree with them who are
constrained from posting such to the list.
Sam Trosow
University of Western Ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Ginsborg <mginsborg@howardrice.com>
Date: Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:00 pm
Subject: Revising Principal 2 of the Guide to Fair Business Practices
for Legal Publishers to ban confidentiality clauses in customer
contracts?
To: marts@uchastings.edu, law-lib@ucdavis.edu,
bounce-pll-sis-45746@aallnet.org, bounce-sccll-sis-48977@aallnet.org,
bounce-all-sis-43097@aallnet.org, Anne.Ellis@thomson.com
> Principle 2 of the Guide appears to support Thomson-West's position.
> ("Principle 2: Disclosure. Publishers should provide full disclosure
> about their products, services, prices, and transactions insofar as
> allowed without violating contractual agreements or revealing
> proprietary information.") Unless the "contractual agreements"
> exemptionadmits of a reasonable, alternative interpretation, the
> underlyingpractice condoned - confidentiality clauses -
> deserves express
> repudiation, or at least some other equally debatable remedy, to
> answerthe concern that Susan raises.
>
> I do not know whether the issue was raised in comments on the draft
> Guide
>
(http://www.aallnet.org/committee/criv/publisher_communication/gram2002/
> 061902.htm) or discussion at the 2002 Annual Meeting in Orlando.
> In its
> series of explanations, the AALL Fair Business Practices
> ImplementationTask Force did not consider the implications or
> likely consequences of
> the "contractual agreements" exemption. (See the January 2004
> explanation of Principle 2 at
> http://lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/lawlib/Jan04/att-0516/01-
> AALL_Guide_emails_Part_4.pdf) Perhaps the Task Force considered
> them elsewhere?
>
> I am representing just my opinion as a law librarian. This
> communicationhas no other affiliation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-
> lib@ucdavis.edu] On
> Behalf Of Susan Nevelow Mart
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:46 PM
> To: law-lib@ucdavis.edu; bounce-pll-sis-45746@aallnet.org;
> bounce-sccll-sis-48977@aallnet.org; bounce-all-sis-43097@aallnet.org;
> Anne.Ellis@thomson.com
> Subject: Re: A Message from Thomson West
>
> Since it is West that puts confidentiality agreements in its
> contracts,
> I find the response somewhat disingenuous. Confidentiality
> clauses
> should be negotiated out of contracts, as the confidentiality
> clauses
> clearly aren't benefiting the library community.
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> On behalf of Thomson West, here is a message from Chip Cater,
> Executive Vice President, Chief Marketing Officer, West, in
> response
> to recent listserv discussions:
>
> To our customers and partners in the librarian community:
>
>
>
> West appreciates efforts to provide clearer insights into
> pricing and
> collection management issues raised by librarians. We know that
> these
> are important issues for you, and would like to address recent
> listserv discussions to provide more insight into our policy and
> approach to the market.
>
>
>
> Q: Is West in violation of the Guide to Fair Business Practices for
> Legal Publishers?
>
> A: We recognize that there has been a good deal of discussion
> around
> this point. We are in compliance with the Guide. The Guide
> statesthat "publishers should provide full disclosure about
> their products,
> services, prices and transactions insofar as allowed without violating
> contractual agreements or revealing proprietary information."
> Disclosing the prices paid by individual customers would both violate
> contractual agreements and reveal proprietary information.
>
>
>
> Q: Why doesn't West disclose detailed pricing information for
> third-party reports?
>
> A: Third-party pricing reports or price indices purport to give
> librarians an accurate view of book prices, and help them plan
> budgets
> for maintaining their print collections. It follows that the
> value of
> such a report or index hinges on the accuracy of the information it
> presents. We provide new purchaser pricing on our Web site. But
> West
> does not view print pricing in isolation, and instead structures
> individual pricing plans for each customer based on their print and
> online research needs. Thus, a "one size fits all" model simply does
> not provide an accurate picture, as contract pricing will
> generally be
> lower than new purchaser prices.
>
>
>
> We know pricing is an important issue for you. We've developed a
> number of initiatives including a new library maintenance
> program
> that
> provides predictable, year-to-year pricing and that many of our
> customers are now using to better manage collections, resources
> and
> budgets, and control costs. This is part of our commitment to
> provide
> you with the best products, support and value.
>
>
>
> We are proud of our longstanding relationship with AALL and the
> librarian community, and believe that open communication and
> support
> of professional programs is the best way to sustain and strengthen
> this relationship. We're honored to support scholarships,
> professional
> development and networking programs, and are committed to
> providing
> the best Librarian Relations and Reference Attorney programs in the
> industry to support the success of each librarian who uses our
> products.
>
>
>
> We appreciate the opportunity to answer your questions, and look
> forward to continuing this dialogue in a productive manner.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Charles B. Cater
>
> Executive Vice President, Chief Marketing Officer, West
>
>
>
>
>
> Anne V. Ellis
> Senior Director, Librarian Relations
> Thomson West
> 610 Opperman Drive
> D5-N104
> Eagan, MN 55123
> anne.ellis@thomson.com
> 651-687-5019
> 651-848-2737 (Fax)
>
>
>
> Susan Nevelow Mart
> Reference Librarian
> University of California - Hastings College of the Law
> marts@uchastings.edu
> 415.565.4759
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________
>
> This message and any files or text attached to it are intended
> only for
> the recipients named above, and contain information that may be
> confidential or privileged. If you are not an intended
> recipient, you
> must not read, copy, use or disclose this communication. Please also
> notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete all
> copies of it from your system. Thank you.
>
>
>
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