Posting job notices here is a convenience to the job-seeker as well as the
posting institution, and I think that banning them as inappropriate would be
a gross over-reaction and generally unwise.
Yes, this discussion has produced some bitterness and acrimony. There's a
great deal in Ms. Valone's post I'd like to respond to--except that I think
that prolonging a discussion of gay marriage on this list would be wholly
inappropriate. It has no connection to libraries or library services, or the
interests of librarians _as librarians_, and doesn't belong here.
But when was the last time a job posting produced any discussion at all?
This is a highly unusual case, and making rules on the basis of rare or
extreme cases is a great way to shut the list down altogether; there's
nothing human beings do that cannot provoke controversy. If we make our
rules so as to exclude any possibility of controversial discussion at all,
we will have eliminated nearly all subjects from discussion and virtually
potential participants from participating.
Liberty University has hiring practices that many of us find offensive.
That's a legitimate topic for discussion. Whether or not we (or, more
accurately, the list owners) want to accept job postings from institutions
that don't compy with AALL's nondiscrimination rules is also a legitimate
topic for discussion. It's personal acrimony, heartfelt expressions of
personal bigotry, and _extended_ discussion of political issues, that
doesn't contribute to the professional purposes of this list, and ought to
be ruled out of bounds, not any particular type of professional posting
which happened to spark the discussion this particular time.
Or so it seems to me.
Elisabeth Carey
Reference Librarian
Testa Hurwitz & Thibeault
125 High Street
Boston, MA 02110
careye@tht.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Morrison [mailto:mmm72@cornell.edu]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:38 AM
To: law-lib@ucdavis.edu
Subject: RE: Some links on Liberty University / Jerry Falwell and some
questions
Now that the conversation over Liberty's employment practices has devolved into bitterness, acrimony, and downright hostility (see Ms. Valone's post),
is it perhaps time to revisit what is appropriate for this list? Maybe we should no longer accept any job ads. There are certainly many other venues
in which an employer can advertise a job, including the employer's own web site. This list simply provides a convenience. As well, should we again ask ourselves what kind of political discussions are appropriate in this
forum?
To be sure, private religious employers have the right to follow their
faith and to set their own employment policies. Equally important is the desire to address discrimination--experience has taught me that employment discrimination against gays and others is alive and well in this profession
and in many other occupations. However, I don't see how reflecting this
nation's bitter political division into this listserve benefits any of the list's subscribers.
Perhaps we are now presented with an opportunity to consider some new
law-lib policies.
*Comments are solely my own.
Matt Morrison
At 05:55 PM 3/13/2004 -0600, Callister, Paul D. wrote:
>In light of what Sam has found, maybe we should take up the whole matter >in Boston, or better yet drive up to Salem and hold hearings there?
>
>Without meaning to joke about a serious matter, I find the whole idea of >crawling of AALL member institutions Web sites looking for what may offend
>our own sensibilities (even if invited to do so) to smack too much of a
>medieval inquisition.
>
>I mean why stop with Liberty U. I'm sure we could dig up something
>offensive on all sorts of religious schools and institutions. And why
>stop with AALL, let's take it the accrediting agencies? Then we can
>follow that with disqualifying anyone with a degree from religious
>institutions from serving as a librarian or academic. We could also make >AALL members sign oaths to make sure everyone is totally
>non-discriminatory in outlook (what ever that my mean).
>
>In case you can't tell, I find the whole process disconcerting.
>
>Paul D. Callister, JD, MSLIS
>Director of the Leon E. Bloch Law Library & Associate Professor of Law
>University of Missouri-Kansas City
>
>________________________________
>
>From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu on behalf of Samuel Trosow
>Sent: Sat 3/13/2004 1:56 PM
>To: law-lib@ucdavis.edu
>Subject: Some links on Liberty University / Jerry Falwell and some
questions
>
>
>
>Having taken up Mr. Kistler's invitation to learn more about Liberty
>University by reviewing their website, I would take issue with his
>assertion that the "job description was crafted to be honest, open and
>transparent." What emerges from a review of the website, as well as from
>reading about Rev. Falwell's views on education, is indeed much more
>extreme than what appears from the job posting.
>
>I am also of the opinion that this institution would be ineligible from
>utilizing formal AALL Placement services, even under the very permissive
>second tier which provides some exceptions from the general
>non-discrimination standard.
>
>I tried to look further into the employment practices at LU. I found the
>human resources page at
>http://www.liberty.edu/Administration/HumanResources/index.cfm?PID=174
>which has a link to the employee handbook, but it is not accessible.
>
>The EEO statement (which is accessible) does confirm that neither
>religion nor sexual orientation are among the listed protected categories.
>
>The doctrinal statement
>[http://www.liberty.edu/Administration/index.cfm?PID=286] says, inter
>alia, "We affirm that the return of Christ for all believers is
>imminent. It will be followed by seven years of great tribulation, and
>then the coming of Christ to establish His earthly kingdom for a
>thousand years. The unsaved will then be raised and judged according to
>their works and separated forever from God in hell."
>
>The Faculty Application
>[http://www.liberty.edu/media/pdf/FacultyApp_adb.pdf] recites the
>doctrinal statement and advises applicants that should they reach the
>interview stage, their responses to questions about the statement will
>be part of the interview discussion, and applicants are asked to write a
>to biographical sketch including "how you came to Christ for salvation."
>The staff application asks for a similar essay. I am unclear whether
>the position is considered staff or faculty but the end result is the
>same. based on a review of these pages, I doubt very much that this
>institution would meet the requirements of AALL's placement policy, even
> at its second tier ("...a separate category for law schools having a
>religious affiliation or purpose that wish to exercise their rights
>under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution to apply
>employment policies related to that affiliation or purpose. These
>provide a preference for persons adhering to the religious affiliation
>or purpose of the law school, but shall not be applied to preclude
>applicants on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin,
>disability, or sexual orientation.")
>
>Given the nature of the application on the website, I don't think this
>institution would qualify because they do, as a realistic and practical
>matter, preclude applicants on the basis of religion.
>
>Also interesting are some examples from the "Reprimands and
>Consequences" section of the Student Affairs pages at
>http://www.liberty.edu/StudentAffairs/index.cfm?PID=1378 :
>1 reprimand for each half hour of curfew violation, 4 reprimands for
>horseplay, 6 for attendance at a dance, 6 for use of tobacco, 12 for
>"Attendance at, possession or viewing of, an "R," "NC-17" or "X"-rated
>movie", 18 for "Association with those consuming alcohol", and 30 for
>"involvement with witchcraft, séances or other satanic or demonic
activity."
>
>Since I couldn't access the employee handbook, it is not clear how these
>standards apply to faculty and staff, perhaps Mr. Kistler could clarify.
>
>The statement about the vision of the law school
>[http://www.lc.org/radiotv/nlj/nlj1202.htm]is also telling.
>("The faculty of this school will be comprised of committed Christians
>who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. These faculty must
>have a passion that burns within them and which compels them to dedicate
>their lives to teaching young people, using biblical and legal
>principles that will revitalize and revolutionize America. ") The job ad
>doesn't mention this requirement, but I think it is fair to read this
>language as precluding applications on the basis of religion.
>
>Finally, here are some articles that might help inform the current
>discussion on the topic of Liberty University:
>
>Falwell Fights Heresy on Campus
>http://www.buildingequality.us/ifas/fw/9711/university.html
>
>The Christian closet: at religious colleges, gay men and lesbians hide
>to avoid harassment and expulsion.
>http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1589/n769/21152502/p1/article.jhtml
>
>With the exception of one particularly hateful posting, this thread has
>for the most part, been a good discussion with many contributors
>raising issues related to intellelctual freedom and the norms of our
>profession. Keeping in mind that this list is not formally an AALL
>project, one question I have is whether LU intends to avail itself of
>the formal AALL-sponsored job recruitment mechanisms. Do they intend to
>post their position on the AALL job line or use AALL's facilities at the
>conference for interviewing? Perhaps Mr. Kistler can answer this
>question. I think if the answer is in the affirmative, there are some
>serious policy questions that we need to address as an organization. And
>as this whole thread foreshadows, maybe we should have that discussion
>anyway.
>
>Samuel Trosow
>Assistant Professor
>University of Western Ontario
>Faculty of Law / Faculty of Information & Media Studies
**********************************************************************
This email message and any files transmitted with it are subject to attorney-client privilege and contain confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom this email message is addressed. If you have received this email message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or email and destroy the original message without making a copy. Thank you.
Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP
tel:617-248-7000
**********************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Nov 14 2007 - 20:45:29 PST