I too have been trying to stay out of this debate because I think it is
important to respect true religious conviction. However, let me be the
first to say that I believe that Ms. Valons response is one of the most
ignorant things I have read in a long time.
I'm a married straight male with two kids from a strong Southern Baptist
background. It is obvious to any thinking person in this country that the
issue of Gay Marriage is a Civil Rights struggle that will be a slam dunk
when it gets to the Supreme Court.
It is that reason that the Conservatives only answer is a Constitutional
Amendment.
The gay community is not being intolerant of anyone by braking the law to
get married. They are turning the wheels of history in America that will
never be undone. The rightwingnut slander campaign against gay marriage is
a fine example of what intolerance is.
This my friends is an important time to stand up for freedom and support the
right of all couples to Marry.
That said, Liberty can hire any one they want.
Brian
Brian L. Baker, JD, MLS
Director of the Law Library
& Assistant Professor of Law
UDC David A. Clarke School of Law
4200 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20008
Voice: 202-274-7354 Fax: 202-274-7311
bbaker@udc.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu [mailto:owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu]On
Behalf Of Luci E. Valone
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 5:00 PM
To: Michael_Gentile@aporter.com; Kistler, Eric W.
Cc: law-lib@ucdavis.edu; owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu
Subject: RE: LU School of Law
I really was going to stay out of this but I've had it. Where do I begin?
(1) I seem to recall Ave Maria School of Law in Ann Arbor posting some job
listings awhile ago and they got the same flack, for the same reasons,
though not as much as Liberty has today.
(2) Traditional Christian beliefs have been watered down over the past 3
decades. As a religion that is supposed to be kind to all, etc., it is
constantly derided for it's lack of "tolerance" toward gays. Now Mr.
Gentile brings Christian gays into the mix (i.e. they wouldn't be good
enough for Liberty based on the director's posting = discrimination). Let
me reverse it - the gays (being Christian or not) discriminate against me by
forcing their unappealing lifestyle into my face day and night. Now there
is no escape even at work. Hence -
(3) those that advocate that gays are equal to everyone are making everyone
who doesn't think so look intolerant, even if that's not the case. The gays
are the intolerant ones - obviously, as they have ignored the rule of law in
several states over the past 2 weeks - I think you know what I'm talking
about. Liberty might as well throw in the towel - based on what I've read
from the majority of you today, they can't be involved with you educated
librarians because their hiring practices are "prejudiced" and don't deserve
to gain assistance from your esteemed profession. (I have further thoughts
here but I'm too busy to keep going.)
(4) Finally, this is a PROFESSIONAL listserv. I am a conservative - no
apologies there. I have been a liberal. I am coming to realize that many
of you are on the left, some further left than others. But I joined lawlib
because the beauty of this listserv is to assist each other in answering the
mundane questions and fulfilling the impossible requests, making each other
look good to our employers and letting us each receive satisfaction in
succeeding against the odds. However, I, as well as many others out there,
would appreciate personal and political beliefs being checked at the
keyboard. Go join a political group if you want to get on your soapbox -
but let the rest of us get back to work. I'm stepping off my soapbox now
and it's getting thrown out with the trash.
I won't be answering any add'l emails on the topic and I'll probably be busy
with my delete button on Monday. Oh, and they are my opinions and not my
employers.
Luci E. Valone
Law Librarian
Braun Kendrick Finkbeiner P.L.C.
4301 Fashion Square Blvd.
Saginaw, MI 48603
(989)498-2100
(989)799-4666 (fax)
BRAUN KENDRICK FINKBEINER E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information contained in this message may be subject to the
attorney-client privilege, constitute attorney work product, or be strictly
confidential, and is intended only for the use of the addressee listed
above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in
reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael_Gentile@aporter.com [mailto:Michael_Gentile@aporter.com]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:22 PM
To: Kistler, Eric W.
Cc: 'Law-Lib (law-lib@ucdavis.edu)'; owner-law-lib@ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: LU School of Law
I appreciate your response and I want, as you suggest, to "be informed by
facts, not prejudices." I think, however, that your answer was ambiguous
and I remain confused. I take it from your answer that any non-Christian
would not be hired. But I am sure there are many gay people who consider
themselves Christians. Would an avowed Christian gay person, in your view,
lack "an understanding of and a personal commitment to a comprehensive
Christian worldview" so as to be excluded from employment at your library?
Thank you.
"Kistler, Eric W."
<ekistler@liberty.ed To: "'Law-Lib
(law-lib@ucdavis.edu)'" <law-lib@ucdavis.edu>
u> cc:
Sent by: Subject: LU School of Law
owner-law-lib@ucdavi
s.edu
03/12/2004 02:43 PM
(My apologies for sending this previously without a "Subject:" line)
I am not surprised by the discussion generated by the LU School of Law job
posting. In fact, I would have been disappointed if there were no
discussion. I am pleased to see our community engaged in thoughtful,
meaningful, intelligent conversation. Important issues need to be discussed
freely and openly in the light of day, for "the fruit of light is found in
all that is good and right and true." I am even more pleased to see the
tone
of the exchange has largely been professional, candid, and cordial while
continuing to be sincere, spirited, and moving.
The job description was crafted to be honest, open and transparent; I am
not
trying to hide anything. The length of the job description is to provide a
thorough description, to disclose as much detail as possible about this
unique job opportunity. It was never my intent to obscure, conceal, or
disguise our non-discrimination policy. In the spirit of full disclosure I
included the full text of the policy adopted by the LU School of Law. In
actuality and in practice, there is no difference between the LU School of
Law policy and the AALL policy. More on this below.
With respect to the issues raised regarding AALL recruitment policy, I want
to assure you that LU School of Law has no intention of trying to mistreat,
misuse, or misinterpret the policies of the recruitment office. AALL has
right to do business as it pleases, and neither I nor LU School of Law will
make misrepresentations to AALL and its membership to exploit any of
services offered by AALL, including the placement office. Because this is
such a thorny issue, and because my own membership profile in AALL is still
associated with my prior employer (I have only been here 7 months), I have
chosen not to post on the AALL Hotline at this time.
I posted the position announcement on law-lib. "Law-Lib is a listserv for
legal information professionals. Although this listserv is not maintained
by
AALL, many AALL members subscribe." The FAQ for law-lib explicitly states
that job announcements are appropriate.
For the benefit of anyone interested in applying, as well as for the
edification of our community, let me take a moment to describe the mission
and vision of LU School of Law. Our objective is to build a law school
committed to academic and professional excellence in the context of the
Christian intellectual tradition with an appreciation for the historic
Western legal tradition. We aim to equip future leaders in law with a
superior legal education in fidelity to the Christian faith expressed
through the Holy Scriptures.
The School of Law proposes to accomplish this task by preparing its
students
to think, analyze, and communicate through the analytical grid of a
comprehensive Christian worldview. It stands to reason that an
understanding
of and a personal commitment to a comprehensive Christian worldview are
essential job requirements for the professionals responsible for
developing,
supporting, and sustaining this enterprise. This is not a form of
discrimination any more than my own inability to become an academic law
library director without at JD degree.
I encourage you to learn more about us at our website, located at
http://law.liberty.edu/. Let your evaluation of our program be informed by
facts, not prejudices about our Chancellor and our parent university.
I look forward to continuing my six-year association with and service to
AALL. I have made good friends along the way, and I hope to make many more.
Amor doctrinae floreat -- Let the love of learning flourish
===============================
Eric W. Kistler <mailto:ekistler@liberty.edu>
Information & Technology Law Librarian
Liberty University School of Law
1971 University Boulevard
Lynchburg, Virginia 24502
phone: (434) 582-2809
fax: (434) 582-2803
===============================
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