Okay, I'm biting and then I'm signing off...
First, it's amazing how certain individuals have engaged in what one
librarian called a "feeding frenzy" over one word, ONE WORD -
"professional". When we librarians finally figure out what "professional"
means, let me know.
Second, anyone who knows Carol Rogers knows that she is the last person to
"take sides" with West.
Third, while it is a free country, and law lib is certainly a forum for
venting, there is always the risk when a certain tone is taken, the author
could be judged as censorious or unprofessional or simply a jerk, depending
on your point of view. If you don't mind being thought of as any of the
above, go ahead, say whatever you want. But, whether you like it or not,
you do represent a profession and your employer in the eyes of many readers.
Fourth, as a librarian trying to deal with the very real problems that the
dreaded peel off labels, I much more appreciate the solutions that have been
posted than the carping (yes, and I mean carping) over whether any one who
does not immediately jump all over a publisher is on "their side." A
certain era in the 1950's comes to mind.
It's ironic, isn't it, how carefully West prepared for this new system - and
look where it got 'em. Goes to show what happens when you don't involve the
customer.
Chris Graesser, who is no longer on CRIV, and happy to say whatever she darn
well pleases
Brown Rudnick
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe.K.STEPHENS@ojd.state.or.us
[mailto:Joe.K.STEPHENS@ojd.state.or.us]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:49 PM
To: law-lib@ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: Seeing Both Sides: RE: CRIVGram ...
I was about to post a message making essentially the same point that
Robert Ryan makes here: CRIV takes too narrow a view of what happens on
law-lib, which is sociologically quite complex and very interesting. Since
he has said that very well, I will just add that law-lib "facilitates
communication" far more effectively than CRIV's annoying and inappropriate
tut-tutting about "unprofessional" librarian postings. If there is
something wrong with public discussion among colleagues of vendor practices
which impact them, surely it is even more questionalble for our CRIV
colleagues to publicly attempt to take us to the woodshed in this way.
Joe Stephens
"Robert S.
Ryan" To: "'Lydia Wilson'"
<lydiaw@yahoo.com>,
<RRyan@HFBLLP.C CAROL.ROGERS@LW.com,
ts-sis@aallnet.org,
OM> LAW-ACQ@LISTSERV.UC.EDU,
Sent by: all-sis@lists.washlaw.edu,
owner-law-lib@u
STATECOURTCOUNTYLAWLIB-L@lawlib.wuacc.edu,
cdavis.edu pll-sis@aallnet.org,
law-lib@ucdavis.edu
cc:
Subject: Seeing Both Sides:
RE: CRIVGram ...
08/31/01 08:21
AM
Sitting firmly on both sides of the fence...I'm a big fan of CRIV. I've
always found them extremely responsive and effective. On the other hand,
some of you may have noticed that I'm also a big fan of venting on law-lib.
I think this serves several purposes. It keeps me from screaming at poor,
helpless Customer Service reps at the publishers (back in the old days, I
once called a publisher and got a rep I'd never spoken too before. I gave
her my name and, before I could tell her, she told me the name of my firm.
I asked her how she knew and she replied, "Oh, they told us about you
during training."). Next, it lets the publishers know that the complaint
they get through CRIV isn't coming from just one or two isolated whiners.
It's coming from a whole bunch of isolated whiners. It also both alerts the
community to potential problems fairly quickly and stimulates (sometimes &
hopefully) useful discussion of the problems and possible solutions.
There's also an element of community building - we're spread across the
country, maybe seeing each other once a year at convention or once every
few months at a local chapter meeting. It's nice to have some sort of
contact with others facing the same frustrations on a more immediate basis.
Finally, it helps to keep me from being reduced to a gibbering lunatic,
hiding under my desk in a welter of shredded packing slips.
So, while I recognize that CRIV is the correct, formal way to proceed with
a complaint about a vendor, to quote signer of the Declaration of
Independence Stephen Hopkins in the musical "1776", "I've never seen,
heard, or smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked
about.. Hell yes, I'm for debating anything!"
Bob Ryan
Hill Farrer & Burrill
Los Angeles
-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Wilson [mailto:lydiaw@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:56 AM
To: CAROL.ROGERS@LW.com; ts-sis@aallnet.org; LAW-ACQ@LISTSERV.UC.EDU;
all-sis@lists.washlaw.edu; STATECOURTCOUNTYLAWLIB-L@lawlib.wuacc.edu;
pll-sis@aallnet.org; law-lib@ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: CRIVGram - West Group's Business Systems Initiative
This sounds an awful lot like we, the librarians, are
being scolded as unprofessional by an arm of our own
professional association. When will AALL stop
sticking up for West no matter the cost.
--- CAROL.ROGERS@LW.com wrote:
>
> The following CRIVGram has been posted to several
> listservs to
> ensure wide distribution. We apologize in advance
> for the inconvenience.
> ________________________
>
> CRIV Gram - [August 30, 2001] -
>
> In an effort to bring about some resolution to the
> many listserv
> messages regarding West Group's new billing system,
> the CRIV would like to
> take this opportunity to offer its services as
> facilitator and mediator for
> those with specific issues to be addressed with West
> Group.
>
> The CRIV would also like to take this opportunity
> to remind the
> legal community that there are appropriate means and
> methods to a resolution
> of a grievance. Part of the CRIV charge is to, "
> foster a cooperative
> working relationship between librarians and
> information vendors". A
> cooperative relationship is one that includes
> appropriate professional and
> productive dialogue.
>
> The CRIV would like to invite specific feedback
> from the legal
> community that we will collate and then present to
> West Group for their
> response. The CRIV has talked to West Group about
> doing a survey to address
> the concerns of the library community and West
> appreciates the opportunity
> to respond to and clarify any issues. The CRIV has
> also suggested to West
> Group that they host in various cities in which they
> have offices, working
> lunches to discuss their new billing system (BSI).
>
> Please forward your specific concerns regarding
> West Group's new
> billing system to Carol Rogers at the email address
> below no later than
> Thursday, September 6, 2001. Be sure to include
> your affiliation, i.e., law
> firm, academic, government. All responses will be
> collated and presented to
> West Group.
>
> ________________________
>
> Sara Galligan
> Chair, AALL Committee on Relations with Information
> Vendors (CRIV)
> Law Library Manager
> Dakota County Law Library
> 1560 Highway 55
> Hastings, MN 55033
> 651-438-8080
> sara.galligan@co.dakota.mn.us
>
> Carol N. Rogers
> Mediation Sub-Commitee Chair
> AALL Committee on Relations with Information Vendors
> (CRIV)
> Latham & Watkins
> 520 South Grand Avenue, Suite 200
> Los Angeles CA 90071
> 213.891.7174 carol.rogers@lw.com
>
> CRIVGrams and CRIV Alerts are issued by the AALL
> Committee on Relations with
> Information Vendors (CRIV) and are intended to
> inform librarians about
> issues concerning publishers. Questions about
> CRIVGrams and Alerts
> generally should be addressed to Sara Galligan, CRIV
> Chair. Questions about
> matters presented in a specific message should be
> addressed to the *contact*
> individual listed in the body of the announcement.
> An archive of CRIVGrams
> and CRIV Alerts is available in CRIV Page, the
> committee's Web site at
> <http://www.aallnet.org/committee/criv>.
>
> The purpose of this posting is to provide
> information and should not be
> considered an endorsement of a particular company or
> its products by CRIV or
> AALL.
>
>
> Carol N. Rogers
> Information Resources Coordinator
> Latham & Watkins
> 520 South Grand Avenue, 2nd Floor
> Los Angeles CA 90071
> 213.891.7174 (tel)
> 213.891.7123 (fax)
> carol.rogers@lw.com
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain material that is
> confidential, privileged and/or
> attorney work product for the sole use of the
> intended recipient. Any
> review, reliance or distribution by others or
> forwarding without express
> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not
> the intended recipient,
> please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>
=====
Lydia Wilson
Library Director
Budd Larner Gross Rosenbaum Greenberg & Sade
150 John F. Kennedy Parkway, CN1000, Short Hills, NJ 07078
phone: 973-315-4468
fax: 973-379-7203
e-mail: lwilson@budd-larner.com
__________________________________________________
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Nov 14 2007 - 20:36:19 PST